Wednesday, October 12, 2005

Advise on Zakat

Can someone advise me on whether my helper (from Indonesia) needs to pay her Zakat Fitrah or not? Or anything related to the matter. Anything..Thank you.

31 comments:

Trust said...

Yes semua individu Muslim wajib bayar zakat fitrah. In this case, perhaps your question is siapa yang bayarkan? In this case, tukang bayarnya is you or your husband. Because your helper falls under your authority, for now.

Lollies said...

hmmm Hansac..true true..I was just wondering whether dia kena bayar zakat ke tak sebab gaji dia tu macam tak adalah besar sangat.

So its' the employer's responsibility eh? OK that's fine

What about her daughter kat kampung dia. Her husband passed away already.

In case people are wondering apasal I pikir banyak2 pasal ni because, because I suka. muahaha

eh lupa nak cakap. thanks hansac

atiza said...

hang la kena bayarkan untuk dia..kan dia dibawah tanggungan hang :)

kalau ikut kes ex-maid aku..anak dia di Indon tanggungan dia la..tapi kalau kau nak bayarkan, lagi la bagus..kira amal jariah la tuh!

Lollies said...

OK another question is the niat eh..aku bayarkan bagi pihak dia but actually dia bayar sendiri or memang aku yang bayarkan untuk dia.

Note : I don mind paying. None at all. Cuma aku nak get the niat correct. Tolong ya

shidah said...

i have a different view. you can pay for her if you want to. but it is not your reponsibility to pay sebab dia bukan your tanggungan, just employee. macam kalau kita kerja, employer kita bayarkan ke? her daughter kat kampung is her responsibility.

her salary is sufficient to cover her dotter's need kan? since the dotter stay kat indon, by right bayar kat indon le guna amount yg ditentukan kat sana. but if she is paying from here, she will be charge dgn kadar msia.

niat pulak, masa pegi bayar tu, amil will tell you the correct niat.

OneEE said...

oh, ya lah..nasib baik you bring up the subject..I pun tak terfikir pasal ni...nanti I ask around.

onde

A Babe Of Very Little Brain said...

i agree with shidah. you employed her, you give her the gaji. by right, the helper should be able to pay her own zakat fitrah, for herself and her daughter.

she is not your dependent.

but it is all well if you make the effort to pay her zakat and her daughter's too.

these are the little things in life that we take for granted because the amount is very minimal to us but it may not be so to her.

God Bless You, Lolly.

Jill Yusoff said...

Agree with Shidah and Babe. I don't think it's your responsibility to pay for her nor her daughter tapi it ould be a good gesture on your part if you do. The niat tu, when you go pay nanti tanya la dekat the person collecting it, he would tell you what to say. Kalau the table kat shopping complex tu you can just read it from the card.

bertique said...

awak kena bayar utk org gaji awak lollies kerana dia adalah tanggungjawab awak sekarang.

bagaimana ini berbeda dengan kita kerja dengan kompeni? ini ada kerana org gaji itu memberi perkhidmatan kepada kita, maapkan sedikit kata2 kasar - i.e cam hamba.

so sekarang, lollies kena bayor utk org gaji awak. utk anak dia - tak payah, kerana anak tersebut ialah tanggungan org gaji anda. tetapi, kalau anda mahu bayarkan - alhamdulilah murah rezeki awak lollies.

tentang niat, amil akan nasihatkan anda.

sedikit ilmu untk dikongsi.

Trust said...

Actually, this is a touchy subject. One that I do not think many are knowledgeable enough nor dare enough to think about it. Kita kena ambil konsep "hamba" in this case.

Banyak benda sebenarnya. Satu, aurat helper dalam rumah to the husband. Tak lagi kena pakai tudung macam dengan orang luar. Sebab apa? Sebab konsep "hamba" tu tadi. Bukan nak kata dia hamba kita, tapi, adat, hukum-hakam, semuanya ada banyak yang bersangkut.

So there are many things to think about, dan kita kena guna context: CONTEXTUAL, tak boleh ambil terlalu strict atau keras atau tak boleh nak dirunding langsung.

I do not agree with Shidah, Oneee dan Dora

And I agree with Bertique.

Sekali lagi, kefahaman Islam harus ada, barulah boleh kita applykan pada context/suasana. Kalau takat belasah suasana saja, tak lah Islamnya.

shidah said...

like trust said we may not have the knowledge to bagi pendapat, bila tak de knowledge, kita bertanya, and i berani give diff views because I have asked the same question to mereka yang berpengetahuan.

helper is definitely not hamba, you don't own them, you have to respect them in many ways & they are definily not your muhram.

i have checked on the aurat thingy, they do have to cover up/jaga their urat with your hubby.

Then again different ulama may give different views, tapi tak lah sampai mengatakan orang with different views itu main belasah/tidak islam. this is something that we can't judge.

Captain Barbell said...

hansac, in certain extent tu pasal la ada kes pak arab pergi sontot orang gaji dia sebab dia anggap maid itu kategori hamba.

lollies said...

Hmm point to ponder for all of us.

Leen Ash Burn said...

Condescending betul Trust ni.

Thanks for bringing the matter up Lollies, I never thought of it - maybe because I am maidless. I would've just assumed that I'd pay for it - the amount is minimal and she is under my care (ie I am responsible for her welfare).

And heathen me thought slavery no longer exists, not in the Islamic context anyway, tapi nampak nya saya tersilap la ya.

Wong Ah Beng said...

Ramai sungguh amil dalam nih...
Lagi senang aa, lu pelgi tanya amil kat shopping complex laa haiyaaa!...hahahaha

Trust said...

Pasal hamba ni banyak yang "tak ingat" (bukan nak kata tak tahu) sebab dah lama sangat orang tak praktis "in open" but the fact remains hamba and kehambaan is a facet in Islam and modernity only gives slavery another euphemism.

Kita je taknak ingat.

I still maintain pasal aurat tu, aurat maid depan suami is tak perlu bertudung.

Seingat saya orang yang strict sangat pasal semua benda ni Wahabi semua perkara tiada tolak ansur (konsep rukhsah) tiada langsung.

The same person who insist on aurat ni is the same person who would wear gincu and minyak wangi. Satu benda dia strict tapi benda lain lupa pulak (bukan nak kata tak tahu, tapi "lupaaaa") dia nak strict.

But then again I am one of the most jahil person I know of so don't take my word for anything.

Trust said...

Riza:

Thanks for bringing up the "sontot" matter thingy sebab well that goes to show how much we think alike because whenever any subject crops up we can always invariably link it to sex. Kira macam sex tu CENTRAL laaaa dalam kehidupan kita. Habis laaaa Lollies punya place kena gatecrash dengan kita. You read a lot of kitab lama perhaps you can tell us how much mired the Arabs life were in sex, what are the meaning of "your wives" and the "women of your right hand" in the Quran.

Some of the things in the Quran are nasikh/mansukh meaning no longer applied to anything (the first two larangan dari minum arak is (1) arak tu banyak buruk dari baiknya (2) jangan minum arak sebelum sembahyang and this two has been superseded with the third one "minum arak tu dosa besarrrr".

But the things on sex, on marriages, one "women on your right hand", on slavery, are still current and the fact that Quran implied that those things are current mean those things are un-abolishable meaning to forever remain as part of human life, psyche and sociostructures of mankind.

Subuh masuk 4.58 pagi here in Bintulu and it is now 5.07 am.

Lollies said...

wo ho..sekarang ni I pulak dah berfikir pasal woman tangan kanan pulak. . *Kejap eh tengok lover I buat apa tu...*

leen - it is indeed fruit for thought kan?

nusayba said...

youve updated here as well i see.

zakat fitrah wajib ke atas setiap individu, thus it is your maids own responsibility to do hers. but there is no wrong in you wanting to pay for her.

pembantu rumah/maid dan seantara dengan nya, bukan hamba. i am not sure if there is pandangan khilaf on this, but jika diteliti sejarah islam, there is vast difference between maid and slaves.

hamba di dalam context islam, is very much different from hamba yang diportray oleh the west.

hamba, kepunyaan seseorang adalah tanggungjawabnya sepenuhnya. there is no gaji, there is no bonus, and it is human owning another human being.

tetapi, hamba itu perlu diberi layanan lebih daripada anak2 sendiri. perlu dijaga, dan dilindungi, lebih dari saudara sendiri. tidak boleh di'tangani', tidak boleh ditengking, dijerkah, ditinggikan suara dan perlu sentiasa diperlakukan baik. more than family itself.

however, islam tidak menggalakkan penghambaan, disebabkan itu, ia ditinggalkan dalam secara berperingkat. if you observe properly, satu bukti is, the first choice that is given when one di denda, or kena bayar fidyah, ialah membebaskan/memerdekakan hamba nya.

walahualam. this is to my knowledge and what i have learnt. salah silap itu dilahirkan dalam kelemahan diri sendiri.

Lollies said...

nusayba - thank you for the insight. and also..if you notice this site memang kekadang lain dari yang sana. kekadang ajele

nusayba said...

sama la kita. i also post different things on diff blogs.

btw, i really do suck at trying to use satu bahasa when i comment kan?

ish ish. campur aduk bahasa. no wonder i got a 3 for my spm for bm. :"> (ini yahoo nye emoticon for blush2 tuh)

Anonymous said...

orang tak dak maid macma aku ni diam je lah, nanti kalu ada maid baru heboh sepekan menanya orang ... biasalah no, manusia mudah alpa

cikni

Lollies said...

tak apa cik ni..boleh belajar macam-macam. aku ni first time ada maid. I just don't want ada sesapa dosa pulak nanti.

Thank you everyone. I am amazed at everyone's insight

senseandsensibility said...

A person who says a maid is like a slave in terms of religious judgment is doing ‘qiyas’ or analogical reasoning. This is the job of the mujtahid as the scholars of usul have said such as Al-Ghazzali, imam of al Haramayn iaitu Imam al Juwayni (the sheikh of Imam Ghazzali) and many, many others.

Can you please give us the name of a mujtahid who has said that a maid is like a hamba and then we all can get back to you, Trust/Bertique.

A maid’s aurat is the same as anyone who is not muhrim. The husband cannot have sex with her. He cannot look at her with lust nor look at her hair even without lust. He cannot touch her.

(are you saying the employer in an organisation can have sex with the cleaners, sweepers,tea lady, secretary because they provide services, receive gaji and under the authority of the employer? ..tak munasabah)

Sapa keluar zakat untuk dia, it is NOT the responsibility of her employer. The employer is not like the husband, father or grandfather to her. Sapa yang said kena bayarkan tu,again, dah buat qiyas. Maybe, she needs to RECEIVE zakat, rather than paying it if she is amongst the masakin (orang-orang miskin). orang miskin have more than half but less than all of their basic needs. Eg if they needed 100 ringgit a week to pay off debts, food, clothing and they had only 70, this person is miskin and therefore would be entitled to receive zakat.

As to the statement that normally Wahabi yang strict and has no rukhsah..please note that they are not strict. They are EXTREME and they don’t follow the rules of ahlussunnah. Eg; no obligation for women to cover their faces and there is consensus (ijma’) on this issue spt yang disampaikan oleh Imam Qadhi Iyadh al-Maliki. But Wahabi said is it wajib for women to cover their faces.loads of other egs to show how extreme they are.

Be careful when expressing views/giving opinions especially when it comes to matters of religion. This is a reminder for all of us.

Trust said...

senseandsensibility said:

"no obligation for women to cover their faces and there is consensus (ijma’) on this issue spt yang disampaikan oleh Imam Qadhi Iyadh al-Maliki."

This is a fallacious statement coming from someone who claimed to follow the Sunni school of thoughts. Since you speak Malay, I assumed you are Malay, and therefore, you are of Syafie School. Sunnis follow their respective schools in fiqh, in your case Imam Syafie RT during his years in Egypt (known as his Jaddid Rulings) said the face must be covered. Must here bukannya wajib sampai berdosa besar but sunat muakkad yang dituntut amat.

If you read closely what I said, I said

"Bukan nak kata dia hamba kita, tapi, adat, hukum-hakam, semuanya ada banyak yang bersangkut."

There are subclauses that apply and this subclauses yang kita gunakan untuk keharmonian hidup kita.

Arguments sebegini:

"(are you saying the employer in an organisation can have sex with the cleaners, sweepers,tea lady, secretary because they provide services, receive gaji and under the authority of the employer? ..tak munasabah)"

clearly menghina dan mencabar maruah orang yang membawa buah fikiran (in this case, myself) and to for you to stretch an argument this far well, is not needed in this case.

I shall stop here and will not respond to anymore replies as this is Lollies' place.

Suffice to say hiding behind an anonymous handle can embolden the doves, sometimes.

senseandsensibility said...

trust said:
1."This is a fallacious statement coming from someone who claimed to follow the Sunni school of thoughts. Since you speak Malay, I assumed you are Malay, and therefore, you are of Syafie School. Sunnis follow their respective schools in fiqh, in your case Imam Syafie RT during his years in Egypt (known as his Jaddid Rulings) said the face must be covered. Must here bukannya wajib sampai berdosa besar but sunat muakkad yang dituntut amat."

Imam An-Nawawi in Minhaj at-Tolibin relied upon one saying of a person whose trustworthiness he didn't check. He thought ash-Shafie had said that a woman is obliged to cover her face but in truth he didn't say this. And this is confirmed by the students of ash-Shafie such as al-Muzani and others.

If we want to know the school of ash-Shafie well, i suggest we go to Manaqib ash-Shafie, compiled by al-Baihaqi who confirmed all the statements of ash-Shafie through at least 2 different chains of continuous narration (isnad muttasil).
So if you (trust) want to prove that ash-Shafie said what you said, you have to prove it and it must be from at least 2 independent and trustworthy sources with chains going back to ash-Shafie.

2."Suffice to say hiding behind an anonymous handle can embolden the doves, sometimes."
are you talking about yourself? you offered the 'fatwa', not I.

i leave it here. thank you lollies for the space. have a great day, sis!

lollies said...

errr..I have no problem with anyone scribbling in here. In fact I am beginning to know more terms..and school of thoughts and just thoughts..so it's ok. *pour air sirap* sila sila minumlah air sekali.

bertique said...

wah makin byk diskusi, bagus. sekurang2 dpt juga menambah ilmu yg sedia kurang dlm diri saya.

btw, it's my personal opinion based on my reading and sedikit pembelajaran ttg agama. i'll refrain myself to comment anything related to this in the future. kalau ada org tanya pun saya akan ckp "no komen" ataupun "sila rujuk kepada amil", kerna itu mungkin antara jawapan terbaik.

segala yg buruk itu dari saya.

terima kasih kerana ilmu yg dikongsi, sense and senseability.

Captain Barbell said...

trust and sense, jangan menyontot dah la yer...e

lollies said...

awak pun ya riza. :-)

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